> Medication CAN lead to a much better quality of life for many people.
Yes, it can. But if the underlying issue is that society and social structures are fucked up, and that's what's making people depressed, then a proper cure has to involve fixing society.
> then a proper cure has to involve fixing society
Where did I say that society is perfect, and that the only thing making people depressed is chemical imbalance?
I agree that our current society can be stressful, and that environmental factors[0] also affect people's behavior.
I agree that we can improve society through collective action, and hopefully that would lead to better quality of life for people, thus reducing the rate of youth suicide attempts.
However, I was addressing to OP's suggestion that medication will not "help at all with anything." Also that "Psychiatric medication often simply numbs your brain ... and it turns you into a robot."
So what are you defending here, exactly? Do you agree with OP? Is that why you are trying to attribute something to me I didn't say to make my argument seem absurd, instead of addressing my actual arguments?
0: Such as climate change, peak oil, the destruction of our natural ecosystem, the massive die-off of earth's biodiversity, and posturing from progressively more desperate super-powers
Maybe not necessarily "evil", but the comment is dangerous and damaging. People who need medication the most are struggling with overcoming the kinds of doubts about this person is just trying to raise up higher. So many people don't make it because they think medication is for the weak, when it's what would've given them the stability to get back to normal.
Multiple people have pointed out errors in your thinking, but I'm gonna add something slightly different:
Consider that we know that mentioning suicide in the news increases the number of suicides. There is therefore a minor Info Hazard to mention suicides without the correct help structure in place.
You are by that original comment implying that medication is ineffective or a crutch. There are multiple other comments saying that comments similar to yours have let them believe that they should do without medication. So you are therefore doing almost the same thing yourself.
Crutches aid in healing, just as medication does for depression. And we should try to keep Info Hazards visible only in professional circles.
Okay. And I was saying that people get addicted to crutches as well.
It's a risk. I'm not stigmatizing people for needing help and never will.
I can accept that my original comment came off a little bit more extremist than I intended but it's IMO also true that you all are projecting a little bit too much, and made me look like a monster who tell legitimately struggling people to suck it off.
> Psychiatric medication often simply numbs your brain so it stops being worried about things that legitimately and truly torment it. It reduces your sensitivity, it knocks off your normal brain chemicals balance, and it turns you into a robot. I've had a family member go through this a long time ago. It was soul-crushing watching them when I visited. They were almost turned to vegetables with chemical means.
See, the problem with acting like you were trying to be reasonable and you "didn't mean it like that" is that I can go back to your post quote what you said.
I didn't "misunderstand" and I did not "only see what I want."
I am not going to accept your attempt to backpedal.
You said what I pasted above. I thought it was an ignorant thing to say. I responded.
> I'm not your enemy here
You absolutely are. I care about what is TRUE. You lie and say ignorant things that conveniently align with your values and try to pass them off as wisdom.
We ban accounts that do this. I'm not going to ban you right now, because I didn't see it elsewhere in your recent comments (other than https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29755850, which was also unduly personal). But please review the site guidelines and make sure never to post like this to HN, so we don't have to ban you in the future.
Regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are, it's not ok to poison the ecosystem this way. Perhaps you don't feel you owe better to people who you feel are wrong, but you definitely owe this community better if you're participating in it.
Please do not perpetuate flamewars on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. You did a ton of that in this thread. That is seriously not cool. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.
It's really very shocking news to me that I perpetuate anything on HN except the occasional comment (with big gaps of inactivity, too).
I got under attack, my comments have been misrepresented, and I'm defending myself. Admittedly not in a timid manner. But that tends to happen when you put people on the defensive by constantly almost copy-pasting the same criticisms.
What would you do?
You linked 6 instances of fairly minor transgressions (at least in my mind; tons of people mention downvotes and are NEVER warned; a lot troll openly, get heavily flagged, and weeks later I still don't see them warned).
This thread here is the first and biggest example and it's the first (and last) where I'd agree with you that I crossed the line.
Your comment is fairly saddening to me and feels like targeting, and/or as an effort to enforce an echo chamber. I am very sure that is not your intention so I invite you to write to me on my email so we can settle this properly with more and better nuanced discussion.
I stand by my conviction that I got misrepresented and got attacked by a lot of people who freely interpreted a comment not made in bad faith, while clearly demonstrating lack of benefit of the doubt themselves. Have they been warned like I am here?
And I'm the bad guy for having none of their attacks?
Ouch. There's something not cool.
Again, feel free to email me and maybe you'll see I'm not some sort of a villain spreading hate on HN. Unpopular opinions shouldn't go under a relentless fire.
If not, keeping quiet on HN is the easiest thing for me to do. I'll prefer it because I don't want to lose my account. But, for the last time, you're making a mistake and are likely misunderstanding me due to cultural differences. Please, do consider that.
Everyone always feels like the others started it, and did worse, while they were only defending themselves. Basically we all underestimate our own destructive contributions by (let's call it) 10x and overestimate others' by another 10x, so "objects in the mirror are closer than they appear" by a good 100x.
This is how threads end up in a downward spiral [1], with each person perpetuating the flamewar while feeling like they're in the right and it's the other ones behaving badly. But flamewar comments like these ones you posted are just not ok on HN:
As for other users breaking the site guidelines, if you look elsewhere in the thread you'll see that I scolded a bunch of them just as much—for example:
It always feels like the mods are against you [2] and that you're being singled out while others are let off lightly or ignored. That's not so. It just feels that way, similar to how it always feel like you're the one the cops pull over for speeding tickets or the refs are always making calls against the home team.
What is true is that there are lots of comments breaking the site guidelines that don't get moderated, but that's not because we're treating them specially—it's because we don't see them all. We can't come close to reading everything that gets posted here [3]. There's far too much.
Btw, it's better from my perspective to have these discussions in public because then there's a chance that others can see and learn from them. A 1-to-1 email conversation has far less leverage and the number of demands for moderator attention vastly exceeds the limited supply, which is why my worst-case latency in replying to emails is unfortunately so terrible.
Thanks for elaborating. And thank you for showing me that I'm not singled out. That was very important for me and it does make the ending of the whole thing better.
While I can't say with clear conscience that I agree 100%, I do agree with your general observations and would put my agreement percentage at, say, 80%.
This situation also gave me a good opportunity to reflect and understand that there's no point in stressing myself in HN so I will definitely stay away from such loaded topics for a long time.
I should have been here only for the technology news anyway so I'll stick to those. I will both protect my mental health and not dilute HN in one stroke.
Thank you for following up, it's much appreciated.
