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I would add another to the list, which is languages where every expression yields zero or more values, particularly `jq`. there are some antecedents in Icon and xquery, but these generally require explicitly opting into either production or consumption of value streams, where jq does this stream processing automatically from the ground up. (icon requires use of a suspend and needs an every clause to walk the generated values, xquery requires explicit 'for' statements over streams as many builtin operators fail on value streams)

in jq, the comma separates expressions, which independently yield values. a span of such expressions is called a 'filter', since they are always run by passing values from the prior filter into them (with the initial values sourcing from json objects on stdin, or an implicit null if you pass -n to the program).

    $ jq -nc ' def x: "a", "b", "c" ; def y: 1, 2, 3 ; x, y '
    "a"
    "b"
    "c"
    1
    2
    3

    $ jq -c '. + 10, . + 20' <<< '1 2 3'
    11
    21
    12
    22
    13
    23
brackets collect values yielded inside of them.

    $ jq -nc ' def x: "a", "b", "c" ; def y: 1, 2, 3 ; [x,y] '
    ["a","b","c",1,2,3]
if you have a complex object that includes multiple expressions yielding multiple values, construction will permute over them.

    $ jq -nc ' def x: "a", "b", "c" ; def y: 1, 2, 3 ; {"foo": x, "bar": y} '
    {"foo":"a","bar":1}
    {"foo":"a","bar":2}
    {"foo":"a","bar":3}
    {"foo":"b","bar":1}
    {"foo":"b","bar":2}
    {"foo":"b","bar":3}
    {"foo":"c","bar":1}
    {"foo":"c","bar":2}
    {"foo":"c","bar":3}
the pipe operator `|` runs the next filter with each value yielded by the prior, that value represented by the current value operator `.`.

    $ jq -nc ' 1,2,3 | 10 + . '
    11
    12
    13
    $ jq -nc ' 1,2,3 | (10 + .) * . '
    11
    24
    39
binding variables in the language is similarly done for each value their source yields

    $ jq -nc ' (1,2,3) as $A | $A + $A '
    2
    4
    6
functions in the language are neat because you can choose to accept arguments as either early bound values, or as thunks, with the former prefixed with a $.

for example, this runs `. + 100` parameters context, with `.` as the 10,20,30 passed to it:

    $ jq -nc ' def f($t): 1,2,3|$t ; 10,20,30|f(. + 100) '
    110
    110
    110
    120
    120
    120
    130
    130
    130
where this runs `. + 100` in the context of its use inside the function, instead receiving 1,2,3:

    $ jq -nc ' def f(t): 1,2,3|t ; 10,20,30|f(. + 100) '
    101
    102
    103
    101
    102
    103
    101
    102
    103
so you could define map taking a current-value array and applying an expression to each entry like so:

    $ jq -nc ' def m(todo): [.[]|todo] ; [1,2,3]|m(. * 10) '
    [10,20,30]
it's a fun little language for some quick data munging, but the semantics themselves are a decent reason to learn it.


the answer to that is a functional social safety net for the innocent employees to land in, not allowing companies to violate the law with impunity.


First off, adults use capital letters. I know it’s hard but it’s a basic part of our language. I would respect you and your arguments more if you used them. Second, your idea is as naive as your writing is poor. The issue with AA was that accounting doesn’t provide a lot of bounce and recover space for people whose firms go belly up in the way that AA did. A social safety net has precisely zero to do with the loss of a lot of dreams.

If you read more you’d know that (and you would use capitals).


and I might respect your opinions if they weren't couched in vapid complaints over the formatting of casual online intercourse. nobody with an argument of substance starts off with a complaint on the casing of someone's statement.

if true, your claim of the inability of the financial worker sector to absorb masses of workers dumped from a company going under due to fraud committed by the company sounds like exactly something that a social safety net would assist with, giving the workers a larger space to safely transition from one position to another.

an emotional appeal to insist on allowing a company engaged in criminal acts to persist because it might have a negative impact on those working for it isn't logical. if the company valued its employees, it shouldn't have engaged in fraud and been folded under as it deserved.


You’re describing a system where taxpayers foot the bill for data breaches.


That's exactly backwards. In the current regime, it's precisely the billions of people who are affected by data breaches (and who happen to be taxpayers!) who are footing the bill.


Not at all. Make the guilty corporation pay for all of it.


We already are in a system where we foot most of the consequences.


>there is no point in code-reviewing ai-generated code

the idea that you should just blindly trust code you are responsible for without bothering to review it is ludicrous.


(I mostly agree with you, but) devils advocate: most people already do that with dependencies, so why not move the line even further up?


There's a reputational filtering that happens when using dependencies. Stars, downloads, last release, who the developer is, etc.

Yeah we get supply chain attacks (like the axios thing today) with dependencies, but on the whole I think this is much safer than YOLO git-push-force-origin-main-ing some vibe-coded trash that nobody has ever run before.

I also think this isn't really true for the FAANGs, who ostensibly vendor and heavily review many of their dependencies because of the potential impacts they face from them being wrong. For us small potatoes I think "reviewing the code in your repository" is a common sense quality check.


Because you trust that your dependencies are not vibe coded and have been reviewed by humans.


Stop trusting any dependency now.


except they are vibe-or-not coded by some dude in Reno NV who wouldn’t pass a phone screen where you work


I'd trust that dude over professional leetcoders any day.

But you're right that trust is a complicated thing and often misplaced. I think as an industry we're always reevaluating our relationship with OSS, and I'm sure LLMs will affect this relationship in some way. It's too early to tell.


I find this relationship fascinating. since the OSS vast majority of the developers will not hesitate to pull in library X or framework Y knowing really nothing about it, who are developers, what is the quality of it, what is their release process, qa etc etc... The first thing I do now as a "senior" for decades when I get approached with "we should consider using ____" is to send them to their issues page ( e.g. https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/issues ) and then be like "spend 60-90 minutes minimum here reviewing the issues - then come back and tell me whether or not the inclusion of this is something we should consider." and yet, now with LLMs there are sooooooooo many comments on HN like "oh they must be supervised, who knows what they will be doing etc..." - gotta supervise them but some mate in Boise is all good, hopefully someone else will review his stuff that is going into your next release ...


You are still responsible for the product; the code has stopped being what defines the product.


If you don't review what the product does, you are irresponsible for the product.


Is the CEO responsible for a company's financial performance? Do they review every line of code the company writes?

It is more irresponsible to spend the time reviewing all of the code rather than spending that time on things with bigger levers for satisfying your customers.


yes but if a dev pushes a line of code that wipes the accounts of millions of users at a fintech, the dev will get fired but the CEO will get sued into oblivion. if the agent isn't responsible, you HAVE to be, cause angry people wont listen to "it's no ones fault your money is gone"


Why?


Is this a serious question? If you are handling sensitive information how do you confirm your application is secure and won't leak or expose information to people who shouldn't know it?


How do you with classic code?


Exactly.... -> Unit tests. Integration tests. UI tests. This is how code should be verified no matter the author. Just today I told my team we should not be reading every line of LLM code. Understand the pattern. Read the interesting / complex parts. Read the tests.


But unit and integration tests generally only catch the things you can think of. That leaves a lot of unexplored space in which things can go wrong.

Separately, but related - if you offload writing of the tests and writing of the code, how does anybody know what they have other than green tests and coverage numbers?


I have been seeing this problem building over the last year. LLM generated logic being tested by massive LLM generated tests.

Everyone just goes overboard with the tests since you can easily just tell the LLM to expand on the suite. So you end up with a massive test suite that looks very thorough and is less likely to be scrutinized.


if you are asking me how you *guarantee* there is not a single possible exploit in your code, you can't do that. But you can do your best and learn about common pitfalls and be reasonably competent. Just because you can't do the former doesn't mean the latter is useless.


>which buffers everything in memory

gnu sort can spill to disk. it has a --buffer-size option if you want to manually control the RAM buffer size, and a --temporary-directory option for instructing it where to spill data to disk during sort if need be.


no they don't. "department of war" is a "secondary title" of the DoD.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest...

only congress can change the name.


you're responsible for understanding the ramifications of things you do if a reasonable person should recognize those ramifications.

any reasonable person would have known they were interrupting emergency services. not a lawyer, but surely something akin to gross negligence would apply?


Certainly it was negligent.


and they were doing that indiscriminate jamming as they drove around for two years.

if op is trying to cast someone making up rules in their head and going vigilante to enforce it on everyone else out of some sense of self-righteous indignation as some sort of heroic action the government is unfairly attacking, I doubt they're going to find many friendly to their perspective.


>Ironically, being anti-science is pro-science. Skepticism of institutions and consensus is the scientific method

skepticism is necessary, but not sufficient.

if they merely nay-say institutions and then go with their gut, it's certainly not.

only when someone attempts to rationally disprove a position, offering alternate testable theories and actually performing those tests is science done.

if you suspect an institution is wrong, that's fine, but it's just a hunch until someone does a test.


>How long did humanity survive without vaccines for _everything_? Oh that's right.

for most of human history, half of kids died before reaching adulthood.


Selling prisoners as underpaid slave labor means everyone else now has to compete against companies using that slave labor. It's essentially cutting us twice. We both pay to house and feed the employees/contractors of the company benefiting who then undercuts us by not bothering to pay them.

Prisons should not be allowed to be a profit center. The ramifications of doing so create gross incentives.


>Prisons should not be allowed to be a profit center.

That ship sailed post American Civil-War. We've made it part of our culture. Every prison charges their inmates to be there. Per Diems. It used to be tax payers but... they found out they could double dip.


This is the kind of thing it's relatively viable to address legislatively, and which would be well within the overton window if it were given more attention.


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