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Incest laws weren't given to Israel until Moses and the Exodus.

As for meaning:

Lot was date raped by his daughters. It shows the moral corruption of Sodom had affected his family.

It's also a historical and genealogical account of how the nations of Moab and Ammon began. Abraham's nephew Lot, and his daughters, though originally close family to Abraham, became the progenitors of nations that later oppressed the nation of Israel.

36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.


Whatever their age was, they were betrothed to be married to men who didn't evacuate when warned:

14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.


Neither of them were abiding by the law. Nor were either of them executed. Such hyperbole.


Abiding the law?

What law did they break to constitute being shot dead on the spot?

Or do you now support vague charges like "obstruction of justice"?


One person showed up with a gun, the other tried to flee (or run over) an officer.

Wold you as a police officer always behave perfectly in any urgent situation?


Trying to flee is famously not a justification for murder, if anything it's the opposite. You're literally kicking someone while they're down. Or, uh, shooting them. Obviously a fleeing person is not a threat to your life, which is the ONLY justification for a shooting.


Why would you flee from law enforcement, or why would you try to run them over?


It's not relevant because neither are justications for a shooting.

Why did George Floyd counterfeit a 20 or whatever? I don't know, but I do know he deserved due process, not a public execution. Regardless of your political affiliation.

Also, nobody tried to run anyone over. That's just straight up not true and I won't humor it, so don't bother.


There is a video of the woman either doing a getaway or a runover. I don't quite get why would you do that while you are being stopped by law enforcement. And it's also apparently dangerous.

You're missing the point. None of this matters. You're purposefully not addressing the underlying problem - extrajudicial executions - because the conclusion must make you uncomfortable.

Today, the punishment for fleeing is not execution. The conversation ends there. Everything else is just noise, and you know that, so stop.


This video very well sums up my opinion and relates it to law https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_

I think you and I both don't know much about the law, but my opinion apparently represents it closer.


So anytime an officer kills a person with a gun, that is now justified?

Despite the fact that the man in question that was killed had a legal permit for said gun AND 1 of the ICE agent even took his gun away and despite this was shot to death while lying on the ground?

So where is the urgency? Not enough KDA ratio to score high enough on the scoreboard?


Your version seems to be that they randomly opened fire. Another version is that a gun went off, not all of the officers knew where the victims gun was, they had also heard someone yell "gun", so after the first shot they opened fire.

It's not that you can be shot at by law enforcement when you are carrying a gun, but that you can be shot at when there is an apparent reason that you are firing at them with it. I'm sure ICE isn't happy about how the events turned out either. But for the protesters: just don't bring a gun!


if the pigs are so scared of guns they should quit.

i was a trained military security officer and i never just drew my gun and shot a guy because i heard a word shouted that was scary.

also: we have a 2nd amendment right to carry guns

melt ice.


Perhaps you are an exception but almost all people are afraid of death. If a person opposing you has a gun then most people get scared.

I'm not debating 2nd amendment. But if you bring a gun to an event already filled with law enforcement, what is your intention?


To have your constitutional rights to bear arms even at a protest or where does it say doubt shall not carry rifle when in assembly?

On top of this are you willing to condemn the anti government protests done by tea party, anti covid lock down and j6 rioters?

At least you'll be consistent.


Sure you have, but carrying a gun also comes with both responsibility, and also may be interpreted that you would use the weapon. To be clear, I'm not arguing the point that it's illegal to carry a gun to a protest, but that it's just not wise.

Then why even make the statement?

Your point about that it's not wise to have a gun on you or flee is completely irrelevant to fact that official officers killed people for it.

Why also not state that it's unwise to go outside because you might be killed by a police officer?

And again was it unwise for tea party, anti government lock down and j6 rioters to have guns on them?


This video also mentions a likely accidental go-off of the weapon https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_

I mention it because it it isopined to be likely. We'll hopefully eventually know what whent off and why.


And this video is not a video showcasing a clear analysis of what happen as the man in the video is biased against the victim considering his political background and views.

So sure lying is an opinion you are correct about that, if I say you're a pedophile because you hugged a kid that is just stating a opinion.


Ah, there appears to be video material indicating Pretti's gun going off: https://youtu.be/JFSBPEQYSFE?si=hWz6bthbUtOmprhh

Like I said, if the pigs are scared of doing their jobs properly then they should quit.

Pretty sure cops in general get scared similar to how normal people do.

In the military we were trained day after day to respond to threats logically rather than emotionally. Cops should be held to similar standards.

All your post is showing is that you haven't watched the video.

So at least stop lying and spreading an alternative fantasy world.

On top of this you didn't answer the question: is now any person killed by an officer justified if they got a legal gun on them?

There is no gun shot before the ice office opens fire in any of the 5 different angles of footage we got.

And not only that you change the story midway, first it was heard a gun shit now it's being shot at.

And the guy shooting clearly saw the gun as it was right next to him.

The mental gymnastics you display is worthy of Olympic gold I'll give you that.


If you have the right to bear arms, but law enforcement officers can shoot you if they spot that gun, then you don't actually have the right to bear arms.


You do have the right to bear arms but bearing arms conveys a meaning, that you'd see a reason to use it, so if you have a gun at an event where there are ample amounts of law enforcement present, against who would you be protecting yourself?


It is famously against the law to own a gun, and carry it with a permit in the United States.


It's famously peaceful if you carry a gun to a protest and it famously drives no officer around you even more to their edge.


If these cowardly goons are afraid of American citizens exercising their second amendment rights they should find another job.


As should you refrain from making assesments on human psychology if you are not able to do so.


My man loves that boot.


If only take sides and don't make any actual arguments, then unfortunately you won't convince anyone either.


Cops can kill at will isn't something that needs to be argued against.

Cops can kill if they have reason to believe that the other will kill. Look it up.

"at will". They aren't going to give you a medal for how far you can bend over.

You should elaborate, because if this is the sentence you want, it's no different: Cops can kill at will if they have reason to believe that the other will kill.

They can kill when they have a reasonable basis for assuming they are facing an imminent threat to their lives or addressing a threat to public safety (but NOT to prevent criminal activity that isn't life threatening). That isn't the same thing as a license to kill, and they are accountable for charges like murder when they don't meet a "reasonable officer on the scene" standard. I don't consider that to be "at will" (likened to "at will employment") so much as "at their discretion."


didnt realize the punishment for that was death


Interesting. When people who stormed the Capitol openly carried assault rifles, MAGA had no problem with it. They called them patriots and peaceful protesters.


It's not about people carrying a gun at all, it's that should you carry a gun to a protest and should you engage in resisting to law enforcement while doing that. Had this person been perfectly still, he'd be still alive. (And also, had he not had that gun, but still resisted, he'd likely would have also been alive.)


> Had this person been perfectly still, he'd be still alive.

Again, I'd like to see you stay perfectly still after getting peppersprayed in the face without any reason. At no point was he threatening and attacking ICE agents. He was trying to help another woman who had just been assaulted by agents. They created the very situation that led to this tragedy.


There was a reason if you watched the video, it was the "help" of putting his hands on one of the officers. And bringing a gun into a situation like this.

There was a lot of whistlers, but I think the woman being helped was one of them, so this was what started the chain of events.


What started the whole thing is that an ICE agent violently pushed the women from behind.


Yes, because the woman was following the agent around, whistling.


This is no reason for violently pushing someone to the ground, at least by my Central European standards.

And at no point did Alex attack an agent. See my other comment.


If someone were to follow me around while blowing a whistle then that would be quite irritating. What would you do in this situation?

Alex seemed to put hands on an officer. Whether this was well meaning in his head, it might have not seemed so to the officer. (Keep in mind that he had a constant whistle in his ear!)


> What would you do in this situation?

Follow the protocol. If you lose your nerves because of people blowing a whistle, you're in the wrong job.

> Alex seemed to put hands on an officer

Where do you see that? All I see is that he raised his left hand in a protective manner, likely to keep the agent at a distance and protect himself from the pepper spray. After that gesture he turns away from the agent to help the woman on the ground. That's when they grapple him from behind and wrestle him to the ground. At no point did Alex behave in a threatening way or physically attack an agent. The DHS report does not mention any threating behavior either.


Clearly you're not on the wrong job. Find me some info materials on how cops need to be resistant to either mental or physical violence.

I'm sure we'll get a longer investigation into this matter. But it just doesn't seem like a pre-planned killing because they could get away with it, but a tragic sequence of events that you so much wish to bend your way.


I'm not claiming that this was a pre-planned killing. But it was more than just a tragic sequence of events because the agents were very much at fault here. They behaved aggressively and obviously did not know how to properly deal with an ordinary protestor (who clearly was no threat to the agents at any point).

This is the ordinary protestor a little over a week before the event https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597.

Alex had a gun with him. If he wanted to appear non-threatening he simply shouldn't have brought it to the event.

I do maintain that this was an unfortunate sequence of events, but I think as this is investigated further, the guilt found on the officers will be small to none.


> This is the ordinary protestor a little over a week before the event

Wow, he kicked an ICE agent's car. The agents must have felt extremely threatened as they didn't even bother to arrest him...

How is this relevant to the shooting again?

> If he wanted to appear non-threatening he simply shouldn't have brought it to the event.

Carrying a gun in a state that allows conceiled carrying cannot be considered a thread in itself. Alex did not behave in a threatening way at any point during that whole situation.


Say officers report that Alex was aggressive on the day he died but there is no video material. The events from a week ago support those statements, as clearly Alex is a man that is quite worked up and capable of physical aggression.

How is it 'resisting' when you have been chemically blinded and being beaten with metal objects?

This idea of people "resisting" when they are being assaulted to death is ridiculous.

If I start beating your face in with the grip of my gun, you deserve to get shot if you "resist"?


Well, the larger sequence of events goes back to the group of people interfering with police work, including the woman whistling along with an officer. She got pushed which was where Alex entered. (Alex had already had a brief contact with the officers minutes before the fatal sequence of events.) Alex also had a gun with him. This eventually led him to being shot.

The researched why will surface likely soon. But as of now, carrying a gun to a protest isn't something that helps with looking harmless.


What laws did they break?


Not really.

Slaves were brought here against their will.

Illegal immigrants snuck in against ours.


So what? Are you're saying what ICE is doing is justified somehow?


Let me check.

Population of democracy vote for something.

President of democracy enacts stronger power for that something.

That something gets done.

People who disagree with democratic powers doing what they said they were going to do want to stop it by force.

That something now gets done, by force.

---

Sounds justified because it is.


No one, absolutely zero people, voted for giving the president the power to ignore all checks and balances, taking a dump on the democracy you’re so fond of.

We know for certain no people voted for it, because the option was never on a ballot.


The same should apply to all the laws ICE 'agents' are breaking in their "enforcement".

What, do you think they should not be punished, or should be immune from following the law? The laws passed by the representatives and president of the democracy you're so keen on?

If you think they are following the law, you sound crazy, because you are.


What laws are they breaking?

Based on seeing the video, it seems an officer standing in front of the decedent is the one who drew/disarmed the weapon from the decedent's holster. This was under the arching body of another agent who was holding the decedent down. The man who shot him was standing behind him.

Despite all the outraged rhetoric on here, it does not seem reasonable to assume that the officer simply decided to murder the man out of anger, spite, bloodlust, and perceived immunity.

Rather, a dispassionate analysis of the scenario might suggest that the shooter only saw the weapon be drawn by an unknown hand, and not discerning that it was one of his fellow officers disarming the struggling man, instead believed that the struggling man had managed to draw his own weapon and was preparing to fire.

Given the facing of the struggling man and the shooting officer, it seems unlikely that his first fear was for his own life but rather for the lives of his comrades, and so he fired his weapon to remove the perceived threat to his fellow officers lives.

This explains exactly why he fired almost immediately after he saw the gun drawn. Not an extrajudicial execution as some are recklessly calling it, but a tragic example of having to make life and death decisions with an imperfect view of the ... battlefield for lack of a better term ... and the foolishness of getting in the way of armed men.

I tell my kids they have the right of way at the crosswalk but right of way is not going to save their life if the car doesn't see them, so look both ways and make sure cars are slowing down.

The same sense of caution should be used when deciding to get in the way of men, even good and lawful men, with guns.

It made sense to protest the Vietnam war or Iraq or Afghanistan in America, not in the war zone.

We have freedom of speech and the right to petition the government for redress of grievances, but do that from the sidewalk, in court, or before Congress, not in the line of fire of a police action. And I don't believe we have the right to block roads, scream in the faces of law enforcement or military personnel, or impede them in the fulfillment of their lawful duties which these immigration enforcement actions are.


He wasn’t impeding. He was filming which until recently was a 1A right in America.

The officer walked up to him and the woman with the backpack and started an altercation.

Using your right of way analogy the officer drove up on the sidewalk to take out your kids, no crosswalk involved.

If you’re going to defend this with a “well look at what she was wearing” type defense then you’re just ok with government agents executing citizens whenever they feel like it.


And from the Injil of St. Luke, chapter 1:

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin pledged in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30So the angel told her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”

34“How can this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Look, even Elizabeth your relative has conceived a son in her old age, and she who was called barren is in her sixth month. 37For no word from God will ever fail.”

38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her. ...

Chapter 2: 1Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire. 2This was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3And everyone went to his own town to register.

4So Joseph also went up from Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, since he was from the house and line of David. 5He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to him in marriage and was expecting a child.

6While they were there, the time came for her Child to be born. 7And she gave birth to her firstborn, a Son. She wrapped Him in swaddling cloths and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

8And there were shepherds residing in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks by night. 9Just then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: 11Today in the city of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord! 12And this will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”

13And suddenly there appeared with the angel a great multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying:

14“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom His favor rests!”

15When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us.”

16So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph and the Baby, who was lying in the manger. 17After they had seen the Child, they spread the message they had received about Him. 18And all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. 19But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.

20The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, which was just as the angel had told them.


‫بِسۡمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِیمِ قُلۡ هُوَ ٱللَّهُ أَحَدٌ﴿ ١ ﴾‬ ‫ٱللَّهُ ٱلصَّمَدُ﴿ ٢ ﴾‬ ‫لَمۡ یَلِدۡ وَلَمۡ یُولَدۡ﴿ ٣ ﴾‬ ‫وَلَمۡ یَكُن لَّهُۥ كُفُوًا أَحَدُۢ﴿ ٤ ﴾‬

: Say, ‘He is God the One God the eternal He begot no one nor was He begotten No one is comparable to Him’

Al-Ikhlāṣ, Ayah 1 - Al-Ikhlāṣ, Ayah 4


Now quote the part of the Quran where Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary.

God did say "be" and it was. Here's the account from the Injil of St. Matthew chapter 1:

18This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about : His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.


Does altitude have an effect?


Remind me what the German equivalent of Japan's attack Pearl Harbor was on US soil.


This writer has lost the plot. Humans have been storing up for winter for millennia. The author wants us to live in a magic fairy tale where heat in the winter "just happens", and in fact, fairy tale style, a friendly woodcutter shows up to cut firewood for you in this article, but somehow that's a sign of societal collapse. The author needs to get out and not touch grass, but touch a tree, and maybe chop it down.


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