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finally!

Hope we’ll do the same in germany.

They tried it a long time ago, but it seems to be rolled back to Windows again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux

I hope our French friends can learn from this initiative during the adoption phase.


I seem to remember many people saying it was done by the mayor because Microsoft moved their German headquarters

> Reiter denied that he had initiated the reversal in gratitude for Microsoft moving its German headquarters from Unterschleißheim back to Munich

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux


There exists a relevant, even German, quote: “Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.” ― Otto von Bismarck (first chancellor of Germany from 1871 to 1890)

I would say that's kind of a conspiracy-y explanation. Big companies in Munich either have their campuses on the outskirts of the city so that people can commute and park without flooding the city or they have it in the heart of the city as that is seen as more prestigious.

Lots of companies have flip flopped based on this, and that's what happened in MS case.

Tbh not saying MS didn't play dirty in general, but not necessarily in this.


> I hope our French friends can learn from this initiative during the adoption phase.

The apps are available now, so reasons to be optimistic.

When LiMux and similar efforts happened around 2004 most business applications were Windows only. Even the ones that purported to be web used windows only technology and required IE and Windows.

Now with years of business budget controlling types using their Macs and smart phones and wanting access to the their apps the majority - even MS's stuff - can be run well in a browser on almost any OS.


> but it seems to be rolled back to Windows again.

Apparently it was a decision by mayor Dieter Reiter after excessive lobbying by Microsoft. At roughly the same time, Microsoft moved their German headquarter back to Munich. What a coincidence...


"they" is a German city, not Germany

There were and are initiatives. Of course, they were and are ridiculed all the time. Who can't recall LiMuX or check out ZenDIS (Zentrum für Digitale Souveränität in der öffentlichen Verwaltung). Read up on the current migration away from MS Office in Schleswig-Holstein.

You did, and you'll do again. Just like quitting smoking.

Let’s hope macOS 27 fixes liquid glass. For now I’m not updating.


+1 exact same situation.

having Tahoe on my MacBook made me appreciate Sequoia on my mac Studio. A real downgrade..


Yeah - It feels similar to me.

Why share something that anyone can just “prompt into existence”?

Architecture wise and also just from a code quality perspective I have yet to encounter AI generated code that passes my quality bar.

Vibe coding is great for a PoC but we usually do a full rewrite until it’s production ready.

————

Might be a hot take, but I don’t think people who can’t code should ship or publish code. They should learn to do it and AI can be a resource on the way.. but you should understand the code you “produce”. In the end it’s yours, not the AIs code.


> Architecture wise and also just from a code quality perspective I have yet to encounter AI generated code that passes my quality bar.

You should consider trying to using AI in a programming language that scores high in the AutoCoderBenchmark.


Most solutions already exist as open source software.


.NET 10 + Avalonia is rock solid for cross platform UI


> ..Jobs would've crucified a few people

And rightfully so. Tahoe is not just a step back, but it throws away so many good design elements that have been there for ages - and for no good reason.

I really hope they revert most of the design changes in macOS 27. I don't mind the Liquid Glass - the other changes they made to expose/highlight Liquid Glass are the real issue.

IMO we reached peak design in 2013 with Mavericks.


The golden rule from Apple in 2007 when they changed to flat design was icon or text - never both together.

Apple abandoned enforcing HIG for app developers around 2012 (Facebook tiled menu, modal abuse, and hamburger) but now seems to have given up on standards entirely.

The wall to wall interaction pattern is terrible too. Every time my hand brushes my phone some unexpected (and sometimes unknown) interaction occurs. Classic example is changing orientation while watching YT where accidental contact with the bottom-left (becoming top-right) part of the screen as you move the phone selects a new video. It’s becoming slop.


Good that Alan Dye is no longer at apple. Liquid Glass on macOS is a mass. The icons, the floating side menus, the inconsistent corners, the new tabs in Safari..

On iOS it's totally fine, but on macOS it's a disaster. I've only updated one machine so far and will keep all others on Sequoia until this mess is resolved.


But it wasn't just Alan Dye. He's not tunning the MacOS division. He's not running tge iOS division. There are literally dozens senior management people and several people of the same rank who could've pointed out all the issues and stopped this.

Instead they were all on stage praising it.


You can get away with sloppy, cluttered and inconsistent UI on mobile when everything runs serially, full-screen.

But bring that to desktop, where your UI is windowed and appears alongside (or overlapping) other windows, and you end up with chaos.

The floating sidebars are a prime example of this. Why should I have to expend mental energy to differentiate what's an actual window -vs- what's just a novelty round-rect with a shadow (oh, and and window controls for the parent round-rect, which is a window)?


> Good that Alan Dye is no longer at apple.

Yeah, but I doubt that would change much; the amount of damage done would be difficult to roll back. What do you think Apple is going to do for the next macOS: "Look we told you to design all these extra icons last year. Guess what, this year we want you to remove them."

I just can't imagine that happening. This is the fundamental thing that is wrong with this. They had the OSes in beta for a few months, barely listened to feedback, and now we're stuck with the damage. For how many more OS iterations?

I really wish they had at least macOS in a different cycle than iOS (and with the idiotic year version names, they've brazenly signed themselves up for the yearly schedules.) I really couldn't care less about what damage they do to iOS after iOS 7, but I still haven't upgraded to Tahoe and I won't do so until they roll this design back entirely...which I don't see happening.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic about Apple at this point but I feel like no amount of criticism is going to change their design trajectory now, unless it affects their bottom-line.


they'll slowly walk the changes back until the aesthetic is usable

in 8 years or so we'll probably get the next major overhaul

we're not stuck with the damage, except for the icons and such. the rest can be changed no problem. they could remove liquid glass tomorrow and make everything look like visionOS and the icons would still fit just fine

but they can't roll back to the previous design. which is a shame, because they poured in probably millions of man-hours to make it great. and the soulless app icons we now have won't ever match the 3d ish big sur icons that were filled to the brim with personality.

hell, there even were entire webpages and social media accts dedicated just to macOS icons. i regularly saw icon showcases on twitter with thousands of likes. not anymore :(


I hope with change in leadership correction of these things will be possible again. Not just Alan Dye, but Tim Cook is rumored to leave in the next year too.


Same here. I think my next upgrade cycle is going to be

- framework laptop or similar Linux machine

- graphene os phone

- ditch the apple watch, go back to a watch-watch


>will keep all others on Sequoia until this mess is resolved

Good for you, unless Apple changes its mind my MBPro from 2019 will be stuck on Tahoe forever.


Hah, really? If you enter recovery mode and install an OS via network it installs the OS the device originally shipped with, right?

On an Intel-based Mac:

- If you used Option-Command-R to start up from Internet Recovery, you might get the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac.

- If you used Shift-Option-Command-R to start up from Internet Recovery, you might get the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102655


Ah yes, of course I can install an older version. I meant that it won't get new updates to future (and hopefully better) versions :(


Eh iOS is fine UX-wise, but the OS is so buggy now it's unusable. macOS looks weird but works basically fine. I haven't noticed actual changes in my workflow; while on iOS, camera stopped working reliably, wallpapers randomly change to black, alarms randomly don't work.

Maybe it's because I use iOS more, while in macOS I "just" work, which is in reality opening a few Electron apps, a Chrome browser and a Terminal.


+1 I only updated my MacBook Air and really don’t like it. Will keep all other macs on Sequoia until macOS 27 hopefully fixes most of the issues.


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